Episode 13

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Published on:

20th Sep 2026

Episode 13: Control - the illusion of safety

Most of us don't try to control the room because we are power-hungry villains; we do it because somewhere deep down in our nervous systems, unpredictable equals unsafe. In this episode, we take an honest, unvarnished look at the sneaky ways control shows up in our lives, from optimizing vacation spreadsheets and dictating couch pillows to demand avoidance when someone tells us what to do and the fiery instinct to dig in our heels.

We unpack the visceral difference between clenching a fist and choosing to release our grip, how our hyper-independent habits masquerade as protection, and why surrender feels like waving a white flag until you realize present-day you might actually be limiting the magic future you could receive.

Whether your flavor of control is over-planning to prevent chaos or subtly managing perceptions so everyone stays comfortable, we invite you to pause, breathe, and get curious about the fear sitting underneath the reaction.

Grab your favorite beverage, take a deep breath, and join us for a raw conversation about trading the illusion of control for genuine inner sovereignty.

Mentioned in this episode:

Stacey wrap

Intro with music

Provided by Jonathon Wilde

Transcript
Speaker:

Audio Only - All Participants:

Good morning Hello, hello.

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I wish that everyone could see

that- It's time … and hear it.

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I know.

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And go.

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It's time.

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How is everyone today?

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I'm still tired from Friday night.

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But it was all worth it.

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I had so much fun.

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I mean, like, you can even

hear it in my voice too, right?

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Yeah.

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I'm too old, so I need more

time to recuperate now.

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Well, no, I'm not too old.

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It's just that I'm older and I

need more time to recuperate.

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That's all.

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How are you guys?

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Good.

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Uh, busy day ahead.

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So got some stuff moved around

yesterday, so back on the

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Prepping- Nice … the house.

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I've been looking at rentals

and yeah, so we'll see.

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So exciting.

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Yay.

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One month.

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One month to go?

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Till I get the court date, so.

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Okay.

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Mm-hmm.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Big deep breath … deep breath.

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Big deep breath.

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Yeah, I'm feeling the same today.

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My divorce for those of you,

sorry, that haven't been following.

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Sorry, Erica, go ahead.

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I interrupted you.

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I'm gonna shut the fuck up

while you say that again.

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No, no, I'm done.

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I just, for those who haven't maybe

listened to previous episodes,

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I'm in a 60-day cooling off period

for when the divorce is petitioned

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and to when I get a court date, so

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Uh.

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I am also feeling, I think I'm feeling

a bit scattered today 'cause there

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is a lot going on this weekend.

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Mm.

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I think we just had a Had like a busy day

yesterday, like getting a bunch of like

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projects and things done, and having a

busy day today heading to a party later,

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and I still have to finish making the

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Like I- I assembled

everything this morning.

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It still has to go in the oven

right before I leave the house

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today so that it arrives hot.

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So.

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What'd you make?

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Just, um, two tray, like, you

know those silver like trays of-

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Yeah … food, like the 13 by 9 trays.

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Um, one is beef and cheddar sliders-

Ooh … and one is pepperoni pizza sliders

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that you can like- Oh, I love them both.

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Dunk in, dunk in marinara sauce.

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The beef and cheddar

sliders are pretty baller.

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I've never made the pepperoni

pizza ones before, but the beef

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and cheddar ones are phenomenal.

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Mm.

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And it's great for like … I bought

like the slider, the tiny rolls,

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but the big one from Costco, so it

like fills the whole tray and you

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just like layer in the stuff- Mm

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and then dump the sauce on top and bake it

so it just gets like- Oh, yum … flavor.

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Mm-hmm.

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So I'm excited.

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And it's easy to just like chop

them up and- Right … there's

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so many to go around for people.

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What time should I be there?

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Yeah.

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Like, I'm not hungry, but

now I'm hungry hearing them.

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I'm like, "Well, I could go for that."

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If you'd like a good spread, come to any

party- Mm … that I'm a part of planning.

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That's right.

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I love, I love feeding people.

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Mm.

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Yum.

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Sounds so good.

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Yeah.

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Awesome.

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All right.

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Are we ready to start

talking about control?

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Mm.

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As ready as I'll ever be.

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We- yeah, that's exactly

what I was just gonna say.

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Yeah.

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Um, well, control came up a lot when

we talked about people pleasing.

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Yeah.

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Uh, I just listened to that last night.

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I, I even noticed it during the

episode 'cause I knew we were

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gonna be talking about this soon.

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Yeah.

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And so every time it was mentioned

I'm like, "Don't they get there?"

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Um, but it even came up in some of

our previous episodes, um, which is

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why we made a note of it in general.

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For me, I, I think I briefly touched on

this, um, either in my episode or maybe…

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I don't remember where, but as a life path

eight, power is, like, a theme in my life.

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Mm.

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Uh, which I found out when I had

a session with a numerologist, and

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she asked me how power shows up.

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And I was like, "Huh?

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What, what do you mean power?

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I don't have any power."

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But- And, uh, but I realized to me

at that time, power equaled control.

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Mm.

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And so I've been working on

better defining, separating, and

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addressing those ever since, and

I don't think I'm alone in that.

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So, um, because control can,

like, show up, uh, everywhere

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in a million different ways.

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Sometimes it's, like, right in

your face, you can see it, but

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sometimes it's so subtle, right?

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Like- Yeah … it, I don't even realize

that that's what was going on until

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much later- Yeah … when I had time

to sit with it for a little while.

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Um- I, yeah, I call it something else.

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I justify it another way.

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Right.

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Yeah.

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Um- Right … whether it's me

doing it or someone else doing it.

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Mm.

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Right?

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Like, sometimes it…

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And it's some…

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Anyway.

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We'll, we'll get into all of this.

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So, um, I'm hoping this discussion

helps me and- Yeah, me too … someone

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listening, um, get just a little

bit more awareness and some

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new tools when control pops up.

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So to get us started here today, what does

control look like you for, like, today?

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Mm.

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I think I mentioned in the perfection

episode how I like to, uh, call myself,

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like, a recovering perfectionist,

'cause this is something that

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I've been working on for a while.

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But, like, for me, a lot of times

the way that perfection shows up is

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in, like, creating the perfect plan-

Mm-hmm … which is about control.

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Mm-hmm.

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It's either about, like, controlling

the environment or the outcome

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or other people or whatever.

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Like, I, I love a good plan, and I'm…

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So, like, I'm a strong C on the DiSC

profile, like, highly analytical,

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gather all the data and evidence,

find the best way, the most efficient

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way, the most effective way.

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Like, my brain is wired

for, like, optimization.

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Mm-hmm.

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And so for me, um,

control is, like, the…

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It's the, it's putting together the

perfect plan and then executing that plan.

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Mm-hmm.

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And then, like, the

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Uh, like for me, I guess

that's a way to create safety.

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Like, it makes me feel safe.

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Mm-hmm.

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Feeling like I've got all the

information and I've got a plan.

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A plan makes me feel safe.

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So that's what, I feel like that's

how control shows up the most for me.

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Mm-hmm.

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I'm, I, I'm not really sure how

to answer this, honestly, 'cause I

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don't think that I'm as aware of like

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When I'm looking to control things, um

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Well, what about when it

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From other people Oh, yeah.

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I mean, I feel like

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That I'm mo- a little more aware, right?

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Like, when I see, like,

someone wants to…

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Well, because then also, like, then, then

the people-pleasing comes up then, right?

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Because I see someone trying to

control something, and then I feel that

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discomfort, and then I have to, like,

figure out what that's telling me.

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Like, is it that I want to

people-please, or is it that I'm

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just rejecting what they're saying?

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You know?

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It's like I have to decipher

because I feel like for so long

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I didn't know the difference, right?

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Again, like we, we always talk

about our sensitivities and

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I didn't know where one person

ended and where I began.

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It was just all enmeshed.

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And so, um, but yeah, I guess I ha- I,

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I do-

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Notice a little more when someone

wants to control a situation-

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Mm … with me, and then, um

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Well, I mean, I learned

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To have the boundary just to

say n- no even through the

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discomfort.

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And maybe in that moment I just,

I didn't look at it as like, "Oh,

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they're trying to control this."

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Um

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But maybe I noticed it like afterwards.

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But yeah, that's, um

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Yeah, I mean, like, I

mean, I agree with Eric.

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I feel like it is about safety, right?

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Like, in that, in that moment what

I'm thinking about is, like, whether

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it's coming from someone outside or,

or maybe me trying to get an outcome

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that I want, it's about safety.

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It's about doing- That's just it.

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Yeah.

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Or even, uh, like for me, the thing

that comes up as it, like, relates

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to other people that we talked about

a little bit in people pleasing

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is, like, controlling perception.

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Mm.

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Right?

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Like, my people pleasing is about

controlling what other people think

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about me even though- Yeah … I actually

don't have any fucking control over that.

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Well, I mean…

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I think I do.

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It's, it's an illusion though.

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Like, I can't…

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But it's about, like, being the

easy, the agreeable one, the

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one, like, you know what I mean?

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Mm-hmm.

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The one who- Yeah … is,

is helpful or whatever.

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S- And I'm trying to control perception

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Well, speaking about people

pleasing, Adriana, you said multiple

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times that it didn't feel good.

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What did it feel like in your body?

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Um

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It's like I get this, like,

discomfort in, like, my, like, in,

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like, my chest and my solar plexus.

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Um-

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It's just like my- it's, it's almost

like my whole body is screaming no.

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Mm.

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You know?

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But I'm like, "Ignore that.

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Go to your head.

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Think about it."

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You know?

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Uh, I mean, and, and

that's what I always did.

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That's what I did most of my life.

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But now I do pay attention to

the feeling in my body 'cause now

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I know what that's telling me.

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And, um-

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And then I have to just, through the

discomfort of doing what's right for me,

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do or say what I need to do that's right

for me to actually keep me safe, not to

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control the situation or the perception

for safety, but to do what's right for

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me 'cause that is what's keeping me safe.

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Mm-hmm.

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difficult though.

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That's interesting.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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When I think about when people try to

obviously control me, like, they're

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just upfront, like, in your face.

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Mm.

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Like, do the thing because- Oh,

yeah, no … I said so or whatever.

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Like, that's a very

different feeling to me.

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Um, with my Aries moon and my Taurus sun,

it's like multiple things happen, right?

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Like, now I have a steel rod in my spine

and my heels are dug into the ground.

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Yeah.

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Like, good luck trying to get

me to do any fucking thing you

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just said because oh, hell no.

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Claire, when I was listening back to

a prior episode and you said to me,

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like, "You will be astounded at-" Right.

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You will.

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And it made me laugh out loud when

I listened back to that You'll be

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like, "Wow, what happened to this

very agreeable, kind, mellow- Yeah

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patient person?"

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Yes, yes.

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Like, she's gone.

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Yeah.

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That girl's gone, and now you have-

Yeah … someone who will self-destruct

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just to fucking do the opposite

thing of whatever you just said.

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So yeah, it's, uh- That, that my

friend is called demand avoidance.

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Like, you have placed a demand

on me, how fucking dare you?

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I will absolutely not do that.

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Thank you.

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Yeah.

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Nope.

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I will not meet that demand.

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Thank you very much.

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Whether it's in my best

interest or not is irrelevant.

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Yeah, it doesn't matter.

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It came from outside of

me, and so no thank you.

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No thank you.

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Yeah.

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Or, or the way that you said it.

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Uh-huh.

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Like- Mm.

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Yeah.

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I, you know, I mean, it's funny.

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I feel like when it's that obvious, like

when someone is that obviously- For sure

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trying to control, I, like I can tell

'cause like I've said before, you know?

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Like, I don't like being told what to do.

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But I feel it's more of

the manipulative control.

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Like, you know, when people do

things- Yeah, the subtle one's much

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different … yeah, the subtle ones.

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That's when I'm like, ooh,

I feel it, and I'm like…

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And then it's like it just-

There's a little like- Yeah.

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… like, it's like a little like

blinky light that's like, "Hello."

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"Hello."

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This is the control, control.

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But it's like, right, but it's

really subtle- Yeah … and I'm like,

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sometimes I'm like, am I paranoid?

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Right?

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Because, right, this is what

we're taught- Yes … right,

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is to, to question yourself.

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Not what they're doing,

but to question yourself.

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So I'm like, am I being paranoid?

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But this sounds a little manipulative.

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Mm.

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You know?

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Um, yeah.

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That, and that I, I

mean, they all annoy me.

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Yeah.

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No, I think in my day to day, like

I said, this has been a po- focus

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for me since, uh, Thanksgiving.

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Like really redefining this and- Yeah

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um, separating control and power,

'cause those are two different things.

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Mm.

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Um, so like identifying what

is within my control, right?

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And it's really not that much.

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So um-

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What?

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Yeah.

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I know that to be true, like,

deep in my body, but ev- but then

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my body is also like, "Hmm, but

you haven't looked at my plans."

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Like,

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I've got perfect plans.

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But how much time do you spend on them?

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Too much.

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Because you're trying- Yeah, because

inevitably nothing goes to plan.

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But that's my point, right?

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Like, sorry if I'm gonna

speak out of turn here, Erica.

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I, I have seen you create the plan

for every, uh, um, possible thing

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that could go wrong or go right

and- Mm-hmm … trying, how do we

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keep it going in this direction so

that we end up over here, right?

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Like, that's a lot of energy towards so

many things that are not even gonna- Yeah

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like…

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And then

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universe will be like, "Um, ha, bet

you never thought that would happen,"

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'cause it's not in your plan, so we're

gonna throw that bad boy in there.

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And yeah, so that's kind of where I'm-

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balanced right now is trying to find

that line between what I can control and,

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uh, releasing control.

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Mm.

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Um, I know a lot of people

like to say surrender, which

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used to really put my back up.

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I'd be like, "Oh, no, I do not surrender."

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Yeah.

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Yeah, that was like giving up, right?

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Yeah.

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Like surrender.

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I was like, "I don't under-" Yeah, I…

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Me too.

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That's losing.

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I don't get it.

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Yeah.

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I'm sorry.

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No, no, we don't lose.

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Um- I am not waving the white flag.

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Yeah.

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So, um-

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Surrender.

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Ah.

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Yeah.

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No, the first time I heard that-

It's so uncomfortable … I

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was … Yeah, the first…

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But remember the first time I heard,

like, you need to surrender, I'm

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like, "The fuck am I surrendering to?

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Like, I don't get it.

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I, I don't know what

you're talking about."

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You know?

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Now I'm like, "Oh, okay.

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Got it."

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Like, yeah, you just have to

let it be, let it go, right?

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Like, you don't have to control something.

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And I feel like…

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What?

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The irony of, like, the, the fact

that I have a tattoo on my arm

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that says let it be, and I'm-

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Like, I know that I get…

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Like, I got it to have, like,

a constant reminder, and I

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still struggle with it so much.

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Mm.

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I still struggle with just,

like, let it be, let it go.

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Like, I still…

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It's because I have, like, a

visceral reaction in my body.

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I don't f- I don't just feel like, um,

well, a- again, because I think it stems,

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for me, it all traces back to safety.

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Mm-hmm.

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And I feel unsafe when the environment

is unpredictable, and I think that's-

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Mm … the result of growing up

in an unpredictable environment.

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Mm-hmm.

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Right?

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And trying to feel like I had to manage

and control everyone and everything

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around me to, like, keep the peace, right?

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Yeah.

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So I feel like I, I feel like that's a,

it's almost like a trauma response for

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me that I need to, like, create safety

and predictability for myself, because

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it didn't always exist in my environment.

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And so I feel threatened.

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It's like a fight or flight response

for me when things do not go to plan.

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So it's like, it's, it's more than just

like- Yeah … I've got the perfect plan.

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It's that my body actually feels unsafe.

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But again, like, when I got…

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And the other most ironic part about

this tattoo, the let it be tattoo,

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is I got it, like, three days before

the world shut down for COVID.

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Mm.

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Like, I got the tattoo, I, I got it

on, like, a Wednesday or a Thursday.

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I flew home from, like, this work trip

on Friday, and then, like, the world

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shut down on Monday, and it was like, oh,

well, the timing of that is ridiculous.

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Right.

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'Cause nothing was in our

control at that point, right?

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Like, everything was so

outside of our control.

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But I, I think that's, that's, like,

the part for me that's hardest is

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that I, like, I try really hard.

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I try really hard to, like, let it be

and let it go, but the, the sense of

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safety, like, when I don't feel safe

is, is what's underneath it for me.

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Yeah.

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I think that is for me too.

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Because, yeah, 'cause I had to

control so much too growing up.

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S- I mean, for both of us, um, all three

of us, right, with what we experienced

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in our home, especially when it was,

like, you know, violent in some way.

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So y- it's definitely a safety thing

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Yeah.

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It's, and, and it's hard for me to

figure out how I can feel safe in

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uncertainty and unpredictability.

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That's what I've been working towards.

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It's like, how can I feel safe when it's

uncertain, when I don't have control

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over the outcome, which is all the time.

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Yeah.

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I, I feel for me, like the

one thing that helps me

420

:

I guess to surrender is, um

421

:

It's having … It's like

trusting the universe, right?

422

:

It's just having that faith that I didn't

really have before because I was taught,

423

:

for me, faith was about religion, and

I always rejected religion, so it just

424

:

didn't make s- It doesn't mean I didn't

believe in something greater, but the

425

:

only thing I knew was religion until I

really had my spiritual awakening and

426

:

then I started to see things differently.

427

:

And so now I feel like

428

:

Um, instead of like trying to control

outcomes, you know, because I want

429

:

things to happen in a certain way or at

a certain time, I'm just like, "Okay,

430

:

no, I trust that it's gonna happen when

it's meant to happen," and let it be.

431

:

It doesn't mean that I

might not get a little, um

432

:

What's the word I was gonna say?

433

:

Um, shit

434

:

Oh my God, I have it

on the tip of my tongue

435

:

Impatient.

436

:

Mm-hmm.

437

:

Impatient sometimes, you know?

438

:

But then, and then, then that's,

like, the control coming up, right?

439

:

Yeah

440

:

So what's maybe something…

441

:

Let's see.

442

:

I, I know surrender is a valid word.

443

:

Mm-hmm.

444

:

And it does come up often, but

for me, release is more of an

445

:

action, 'cause surrender feels-

Mm … surrender feels so passive,

446

:

like you're just letting stuff happen.

447

:

But it's- I love that distinction.

448

:

Ooh, I love that … yeah.

449

:

I know surrender isn't passive.

450

:

It is an action.

451

:

Right.

452

:

It just doesn't feel that way to me.

453

:

It fe- it feels…

454

:

Well, I, I feel like it's the same

thing, like with power, because of

455

:

the way that power and surrender

have been used by society, right?

456

:

Right.

457

:

So it's- we're s- I feel like it's

so conditioned in us that that's

458

:

why we look at it in almost,

like, a negative way because of

459

:

the way- I don't think, does it-

460

:

it was- Yeah, surrender feels

like submit to- Correct.

461

:

Exactly … and- Right.

462

:

Right.

463

:

And it, it's not how I look at it,

464

:

it's how I viscerally

react- Yeah … to the word.

465

:

The conditioning.

466

:

I, I agree.

467

:

Yeah.

468

:

Um- And that's, that, that

distinction really resonates with me.

469

:

I love that.

470

:

So but releasing, like, that

to me is like this is control.

471

:

Yes.

472

:

This is me clenching my fist

and trying to hold on or- It's

473

:

your choice … manage or…

474

:

Right.

475

:

And, and loosening that and/or

just opening my hand is something

476

:

that's within my control.

477

:

Mm.

478

:

That I can control.

479

:

All of the stuff that happens

outside of that is not in my control.

480

:

So that's one thing I do

481

:

Is there anything, using that metaphor,

that you all have successfully or have

482

:

practiced releasing control around lately?

483

:

Well, like Adriana said, I think I've,

I think I've come a long way in certain

484

:

areas where it's like you just have to…

485

:

Oh.

486

:

You just have to trust the universe

and trust that, like, everything's

487

:

gonna happen in the right timing,

um, and not necessarily on my

488

:

timeline or according to my agenda.

489

:

I think that is an area where

I've, I've h- I've come a long

490

:

way because I've seen it, right?

491

:

Exactly.

492

:

Like, I've seen it unfold in my life

so many times, and in retrospect I can

493

:

now look back and say, like, "Oh yeah,

now I know why that didn't happen," or,

494

:

"I know why this, this didn't happen,"

or, "I know why whatever," right?

495

:

Mm-hmm.

496

:

So I, I can see how everything is

always happening for me and not to me.

497

:

I was gonna say that before, yes.

498

:

And- So that's one area

where I think that it's good.

499

:

Where I still struggle is like, like

you were saying earlier, Stacy, like I'm

500

:

really good at like ta- like thinking

through something 100 different ways

501

:

and figuring out which way is going

to be like low effort, high impact.

502

:

Like, how can we be as effective

and efficient as possible?

503

:

How can I optimize my time?

504

:

Because I do…

505

:

Like, there is, there's

so much going on, right?

506

:

Mm-hmm.

507

:

And like we've got full-time jobs, and

I've got the like family and, and two

508

:

dogs to take care of, and my, my family

doesn't live here, so it's a lot more of

509

:

like an effort and an intentional, um…

510

:

Like I have to be more

intentional about like connection-

511

:

Mm-hmm … with my people, right?

512

:

Um, so it's trying to juggle and

balance all of those things, and

513

:

I see my time as like so precious

and like my energy as so expensive.

514

:

Like I have to- Mm-hmm … make sure

that I'm using it the best way possible.

515

:

Mm-hmm.

516

:

So like I hate wasting even a second

doing something that I don't have

517

:

to be doing or doing something a

hard way when I could do it- Mm-hmm

518

:

a much easier way, right?

519

:

Not everybody thinks or feels that

way, and so when I see other people

520

:

doing something in a way that's

like super inefficient or like, "Why

521

:

are you doing this the hard way?

522

:

Why are you…"

523

:

Right.

524

:

I just have to like leave the room.

525

:

Like that's where I have- Yeah … to

let go of control and be like- Mm-hmm

526

:

okay, that's the way…

527

:

Like this is the way that I would

do it, and it is, it is the right

528

:

way, and also there's probably- For

you … another right way, right?

529

:

Like, yes, like there's

more than one right way.

530

:

Like there's more than

one means to the end.

531

:

But that's a thing that I still

have a hard time wrestling, and

532

:

sometimes I just need to like remove

myself, because there's no reason

533

:

for me to have such a big reaction

to just a different way of doing.

534

:

Mm.

535

:

But I struggle with that like daily.

536

:

Yeah.

537

:

I also have a hard time with like

538

:

people not following the rules.

539

:

Mm-hmm.

540

:

Um, and for me like that relates

to control because it's like-

541

:

I, I think about that a lot,

like when I'm driving, right?

542

:

Like- Mm … if we all just followed the

rules, then there would be a lot less

543

:

hiccups to our plans.

544

:

There'd be a lot less accidents.

545

:

There'd be a lot less traffic.

546

:

There'd be a lot less whatever.

547

:

But like, everybody's so, like,

caught up in their own things that,

548

:

like, you know, bad stuff happens out

there, and in that sense, like, the

549

:

rules are meant to keep everyone safe.

550

:

Mm-hmm.

551

:

And when people don't follow the

rules, it's unsafe, but that's

552

:

triggering to me because I'm, I'm

always, like, in s- my nervous system

553

:

is always in search of safety, and

all of that is outside of my control.

554

:

So it's, like, always triggering to me.

555

:

Do you know what I mean?

556

:

Yeah.

557

:

But that's- I can, I can definitely

relate to it … that's the place

558

:

where I have the hardest time letting

go, behind the wheel of my car.

559

:

Me too.

560

:

Me too.

561

:

Yeah, it's funny 'cause-

562

:

I mean, I've never looked

at it as the rules.

563

:

I just always look at it

as, like, consideration.

564

:

I don't really think about

rules, 'cause I don't like them.

565

:

But- Basic human decency.

566

:

Right, yeah.

567

:

You know?

568

:

I'm just like, "Why?"

569

:

Like, was that necessary?

570

:

You know?

571

:

But, um-

572

:

I also like, you know, when you were

talking about trusting the universe that

573

:

it's meant to happen, you know, the way

that it's going to happen, not the way

574

:

that you think it's gonna happen or that,

and that y- in hindsight, you see how it's

575

:

worked out for you and why certain things

worked out the way that they did and why

576

:

you had to do them the way that you did.

577

:

Um, and I also feel that

578

:

surrendering to the universe, right?

579

:

And not trying to control everything that

580

:

A, a lot of times, probably every

time, the way that it works out is

581

:

even better than you ever expected.

582

:

Yes.

583

:

Mm-hmm.

584

:

You know?

585

:

Like, you have something in mind and

you're like, yep, that's what you want.

586

:

And, you know, and, and, and for example,

like for me, when I got divorced and was

587

:

looking for a place to live, I did have a,

something in mind of what I wanted, and I

588

:

had found it, but the, but the deal, you

know, didn't go through, and I was kinda

589

:

bummed because I'm like, "It was perfect.

590

:

This, this is like everything I wanted."

591

:

But the universe was like, "No, no, but

I'm gonna give you all that, but better."

592

:

And then I found my place, and it was

even better than- Mm … than that.

593

:

It was everything I had wanted

and then some, you know?

594

:

Um, and so I think about

those things more too when…

595

:

Like, I have to look back at how something

has worked out for me in the past so that

596

:

I can let go of the control of wanting

it a certain way so that it happens.

597

:

And then I think like, "Okay, just

let it be and it's gonna be even

598

:

better," and I'm like, "Awesome.

599

:

We like that."

600

:

So let it go.

601

:

And what you said too- That's

one of my- Like- Sorry.

602

:

No, it's okay.

603

:

Like, when you said too, um, that I

was gonna say earlier too was, um-

604

:

About things happening

for you, not to you.

605

:

Like, like that makes life

so much easier 'cause it…

606

:

Yeah, you don't have to f- I don't know.

607

:

I, I…

608

:

Again, it was once I moved

out on my own, I'd never lived

609

:

completely on my own before.

610

:

I had roommates and got married.

611

:

And having to take care of everything

and owning my own place, right?

612

:

So yeah.

613

:

So it, it was, it was difficult.

614

:

If something broke, I was like, "Oh, fuck.

615

:

Now what?"

616

:

Right?

617

:

And, and then you wanna jump

in to, like, control things and

618

:

whatever because, because I didn't

know how to handle something.

619

:

And, um, you know, I remember

I would think, like, well, this

620

:

is happening for me, not to me.

621

:

So, and that would just calm me.

622

:

Like, just thinking that would calm me,

and it would be like, okay, this is…

623

:

I'm, I'm meant to have this

experience for a reason.

624

:

I'm gonna learn something from

this instead of freaking out and

625

:

wanting to control the situation

and figure out how, you know.

626

:

Which I guess when you're in that state,

we, right, 'cause you get anxious and

627

:

everything, then you don't, probably

don't always get the best outcome

628

:

'cause you're not in the right mindset

629

:

100%.

630

:

Yeah.

631

:

100%.

632

:

I also hadn't ever lived by

myself until I got divorced.

633

:

Yeah.

634

:

And it, I, it actually

took me, like, weeks.

635

:

I had this, like, moment where I

was sitting, I think I was, like,

636

:

sitting on the couch in my living

room, and I was, like, journaling.

637

:

And I, like, looked up and I looked

around at, like, this cute little

638

:

home that I had created for myself.

639

:

And, like, I got to pick everything.

640

:

I got to pick the carpets

and the blinds and the, the

641

:

furniture and, like, everything.

642

:

I got to pick it-

Yeah … and it was all mine.

643

:

And I was like, "Oh my God, I've

never been by myself before."

644

:

Yeah.

645

:

And I just had this moment where I was

like, at first I was like, "Oh, shit."

646

:

And then I was like,

"Wait, no, that's okay."

647

:

Right.

648

:

I was like, "That's,

it's actually so good."

649

:

And then I was like- Yeah.

650

:

Yeah.

651

:

I was afraid to live alone

too before I lived alone.

652

:

I was like, I, like, I, I don't know…

653

:

My God, I love being alone.

654

:

We'll have to make this a separate topic.

655

:

Yes, for sure.

656

:

Yeah.

657

:

For sure.

658

:

That's something we all have in common.

659

:

Yeah.

660

:

Yep.

661

:

Okay.

662

:

Um, sorry, just making a

note so I don't forget.

663

:

And, um-

664

:

Yeah.

665

:

So I, I think the same

thing for myself, right?

666

:

Like what you both said, um, is I'm trying

to control it with what I know now- Mm-hmm

667

:

… what I have experience with now.

668

:

Ooh.

669

:

Yeah.

670

:

And future me,

671

:

I'm limiting future me by doing that.

672

:

Mm.

673

:

Like, I don't know what's

gonna happen tomorrow.

674

:

I don't know what opportunities

are going to present themselves

675

:

I would never have imagined

676

:

a year ago that we would be doing this.

677

:

Like, where we are today

was beyond my comprehension.

678

:

Yeah, we were talking about it.

679

:

And two years ago- Yeah … hell no.

680

:

Like, what are you talking about?

681

:

Two years ago me would've

been like, "Are you high?

682

:

No."

683

:

When did you start smoking weed again?

684

:

Right.

685

:

Um,

686

:

like so yeah, I've seen many things

in the past like, like Adriana was

687

:

saying, you know, like things I thought

I really wanted that didn't work out,

688

:

only to get something so much better

as a result of them not working out.

689

:

Mm-hmm.

690

:

So many instances of that, and every time

I feel that tightening, that no, it has

691

:

to be this way, um, to be like, does it?

692

:

Because over, remember this time

it wasn't, and this happened

693

:

because of that, which was amazing.

694

:

Like, so much better than you

could have ever dreamed up.

695

:

So it makes it a little bit easier

to loosen my grip a little bit.

696

:

Yeah, I, I like the fact that

when you talked about future

697

:

you, it's like, oh, yeah

698

:

That's good one

699

:

I love it and I hate when

you do that, when I'm like,

700

:

"Ah, dang it."

701

:

It's so right.

702

:

It's like, damn it, I really

have to look at this now.

703

:

But what are you talking about?

704

:

Present day me doesn't know

everything there is to know.

705

:

She's done so much research.

706

:

No, you're right.

707

:

Like, I…

708

:

So I've been…

709

:

It seems, like, so silly, but because

this has been such a challenge for me

710

:

for so long, I'm, I've been trying to

let go in, like, the smallest ways first.

711

:

Like, like, the smallest ways.

712

:

It's, it's gonna seem so silly and

insignificant, but things that actually

713

:

gave me, like, a visceral reaction before,

and I'm, I'm working through them, like

714

:

Like how the pillows are

arranged on the couch.

715

:

Mm-hmm.

716

:

And the fact that it looks like

a grenade went off every time

717

:

somebody else lays on the couch.

718

:

Mm.

719

:

'Cause I'm like, can't you just use

a pillow like a normal human person?

720

:

Learn.

721

:

Why are they…

722

:

Nope.

723

:

Right?

724

:

No.

725

:

And, and also, like, how do

you want me to cut the peppers

726

:

when I do the meal prep today?

727

:

Instead of giving specific instructions,

just be like, "I don't care.

728

:

They're gonna go in our food.

729

:

I don't care what shape they are."

730

:

Like, that seems so dumb, but that's a

big deal to me because I would've had

731

:

like a perfect way in my brain that I

wanted it to look when it's on my plate.

732

:

Mm.

733

:

And it's like trying to figure out

those little ways to practice day to

734

:

day instead of feeling like it has to

be a big overhaul because it's gonna

735

:

be such a deep unlearning for me.

736

:

Mm.

737

:

And it's gonna…

738

:

I've been working on this with my

therapist for like a year and a half.

739

:

Like, the rigidity and the control

has been a big theme for me.

740

:

Oh my God.

741

:

You just…

742

:

It's so funny 'cause everything that

you just said, I was like, "Oh, shit."

743

:

Like, living alone is great

because nobody touches my shit.

744

:

I know, yeah.

745

:

Everything is done

exactly the way I like it.

746

:

I know.

747

:

And so, but this is going to

definitely be, um, a whole nother

748

:

fucking layer for me once I-

Yeah … get into a relationship.

749

:

Yeah.

750

:

Because exactly.

751

:

I'm like, "These onions are way too big.

752

:

Cut them smaller."

753

:

Right?

754

:

Like, does it fucking matter?

755

:

It's going in the same thing.

756

:

Yeah.

757

:

You're gonna fucking chew on it.

758

:

But- But- But there was

a point where I would.

759

:

Like, I would be like, "What the fuck?"

760

:

Or, "Why isn't that, that, that

pillow is facing the wrong way.

761

:

It is not how I left it."

762

:

You know?

763

:

So it's fun that you bring all that

up 'cause right now I'm like, "Oh,

764

:

I don't have a problem with that,"

yeah, 'cause there's nobody here.

765

:

'Cause it's literally

your shit all the time.

766

:

It's just me, right.

767

:

Yeah.

768

:

Or like how someone loads the dishwasher.

769

:

Don't even…

770

:

That, we could do a whole fucking

episode on the dishwasher.

771

:

We could.

772

:

There's a right and a wrong way.

773

:

But, well, it's, to me

it's just common sense.

774

:

I will not touch other

people's dishwashers.

775

:

Yeah.

776

:

That's how strongly I feel about it.

777

:

Yeah.

778

:

I'm like, that's your thing.

779

:

And I've had people

say, "It doesn't matter.

780

:

Just throw it in there," and I'm like-

Yeah … uh, I don't know if you're part

781

:

of my family because - Right … the

people I know have very, they're very

782

:

opinionated about- Mm … the dishwasher.

783

:

Anyway.

784

:

But here's, here's the

other thing, though.

785

:

Like, I'm such a, I'm such an

observant and detail-oriented person.

786

:

Yeah.

787

:

I, like when I come to your house,

Adriana- Mm-hmm … I think I load

788

:

the dishwasher the way you load it

because I- Yeah … I open it and I

789

:

take stock to see what your system is.

790

:

Right.

791

:

And then I do it accordingly, right?

792

:

Yeah.

793

:

Like, I j- I'm like, "Okay,

here's the rules in this house.

794

:

Like, I'm gonna just do this

the way that she would do it."

795

:

But like, in my house, uh, I, I load

the dishwasher in a very specific

796

:

way because it's for optimal clean.

797

:

Like, if you put something-

Mm-hmm … face down on the bottom

798

:

rack, none of the water's gonna

get to the things on the top rack.

799

:

Uh-huh.

800

:

There's a right and a wrong way.

801

:

Exactly.

802

:

What's the point of the dishwasher if

it doesn't actually wash the dishes?

803

:

Right, if you're gonna

have to clean them after.

804

:

Yeah.

805

:

That's so funny.

806

:

Yeah.

807

:

So anyway.

808

:

I try.

809

:

There's something, like I'm not, I'm

never gonna let go of the dishwasher.

810

:

That's-

811

:

That's why my next relationship,

they're gonna have to live next door.

812

:

I always thought separate

houses, uh, would be ideal.

813

:

We'll buy a duplex, and I'll live in one

side and you'll live in the other side.

814

:

Yeah, and we just take turns

going next, you know, next door.

815

:

Mondays you come here,

Tuesdays I go there.

816

:

Okay.

817

:

Wednesday we take a break.

818

:

That's, it's, uh, the commune, right?

819

:

Like, everybody has their own space.

820

:

Yeah.

821

:

Yes.

822

:

But we can all come together.

823

:

And then we have a communal space.

824

:

Exactly.

825

:

That's what we're working towards,

just FYI, in case of, like…

826

:

Hell yeah.

827

:

We've already talked about this, but

just I want, like, I want, like, a

828

:

bunch of tiny houses and, like, a nice

house in the middle- Yes … that we

829

:

can, like, eat dinner in together.

830

:

Yeah.

831

:

Or watch a movie in together.

832

:

Clubhouse, yeah.

833

:

Yeah, exactly.

834

:

Like a clubhouse.

835

:

And we'll have a pool for you, Adriana.

836

:

Heck yeah.

837

:

And a nice shade structure for you, Stacy.

838

:

And it needs to be n- it also

needs to be near the ocean.

839

:

Yeah.

840

:

I need the ocean.

841

:

Yeah.

842

:

I need green, so.

843

:

Yeah.

844

:

Whatever.

845

:

All right, so anything else?

846

:

I, I feel like we've, we've covered a lot.

847

:

We have.

848

:

Yeah.

849

:

All right.

850

:

And I don't…

851

:

Like, this isn't the end of it, because

again, like, this has- No, no … this

852

:

has been a, such a work in progress

for me for the longest time, and it's

853

:

a continued work in progress, so I'm

sure this is gonna continue to come up.

854

:

Um- Yeah, I'm s- I'm still defining it.

855

:

Right.

856

:

So, like, uh- I, I will

add one more thing, too.

857

:

I feel like, um, like for me, control

came up a lot, too, in relationships.

858

:

And I'll say, like, with my

ex, with me wanting him to be a

859

:

certain way and trying to, like…

860

:

Yeah.

861

:

Of course, I didn't

realize it in the moment.

862

:

In the moment- Right … I didn't realize

that that's what I was doing, but as

863

:

I've been doing the work on myself,

I realized that that I was doing.

864

:

I was trying to-

865

:

Make him be what I needed and not…

866

:

And, and therefore was

c- trying to control him.

867

:

Right.

868

:

And now realizing that, um,

it's just not who he is.

869

:

It's not, you know, he doesn't have

the capacity to be that, right?

870

:

Or, or maybe he would,

but it's up to him, right?

871

:

Right.

872

:

Not up to me.

873

:

Right.

874

:

Um, and, you know, I learned

that through astrology.

875

:

Mm-hmm.

876

:

Because if I hadn't started

looking at astrology, like,

877

:

deeper and all my placements,

that is a very Scorpionic thing.

878

:

And before I knew I had the Scorpio

placements, that's what I was doing.

879

:

So it wasn't until I understood

that part of me that I was like, oh,

880

:

holy shit, that was total control.

881

:

Like, I was trying to control something.

882

:

Mm.

883

:

You know?

884

:

Besides how to cut the onions.

885

:

You know?

886

:

And therefore, and he was

doing something similar, right?

887

:

Like, there was a lot of control

in there that I didn't…

888

:

Because I think we're told that control

looks a certain way, that control o- is

889

:

only when someone's tr- trying to tell you

what to do and what to wear, not who you

890

:

should be, you know, and stuff like that.

891

:

Like, control is just, it's so

deeply rooted in so many things.

892

:

Well, and it's also like we

were saying before about,

893

:

like, controlling other people.

894

:

Like, when- Mm-hmm … when we feel like

someone's trying to control us or, like,

895

:

when I see someone trying to control other

people, it's, it's again, like, it…

896

:

They try to control what other people

are doing so that they feel safe.

897

:

Yeah.

898

:

Or that they feel like…

899

:

I think c- like, control is,

is what makes people feel safe.

900

:

So, like, I, I wanna say that, like, I

don't always think, and I know this is

901

:

true for me, like, I don't always think

that it's done with ill intentions.

902

:

It's like- Right … I feel unsafe.

903

:

Mm-hmm.

904

:

So, like, when I'm trying to control

something, it's not because I want…

905

:

Like, I, like, I'm trying to control

other people or things around

906

:

me just because I like power.

907

:

It's, it's because-

Mm-hmm … I don't feel safe.

908

:

Right.

909

:

Right?

910

:

So it's, it's, it's so hard to even

articulate or explain this, but, like-

911

:

It feels, I think it feels, like, bad

to other people, but, like, the root of

912

:

it for me is, is not ill-intentioned.

913

:

It's, it's actually the opposite.

914

:

Like, I've, in so many cases,

like, my plans are about trying

915

:

to make a positive outcome.

916

:

Right.

917

:

It's about trying to make sure

everybody has fun, or everybody

918

:

stays safe, or everybody…

919

:

Like, I'm trying to, like, predict

things that are not always predictable.

920

:

But like, that's the reason that I

vacation in spreadsheets, and I make

921

:

lists of all the best restaurants.

922

:

Mm-hmm.

923

:

And I look for, you know, the most

fun things to do, and I'm trying to

924

:

make sure that, like, everyone has the

kind of experience they wanna have.

925

:

And like, that looks like-

926

:

control, but it's actually done with,

like, the best intentions Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

927

:

Even though it doesn't always

feel that way to other people.

928

:

Which is hard for me 'cause that's

the opposite of what I want,

929

:

but that's a constant battle.

930

:

Hmm.

931

:

Yeah, I mean, we're not talking about

the control that comes from narcissistic

932

:

abuse or like, you know- Right,

exactly … psychopaths and all of that.

933

:

Right, right.

934

:

We're talking about, like, just

well-meaning, well-intentioned.

935

:

Right.

936

:

Right.

937

:

Right.

938

:

Again, because it comes

from safety, right?

939

:

Everyone just wanting, like, safety.

940

:

Yeah.

941

:

Maybe that's a way to connect this

back to compassion, is like also being

942

:

able to ask that question or like when

we see it happening to other people.

943

:

Mm-hmm.

944

:

Mm-hmm.

945

:

It's like, what are they actually,

what are they actually feeling?

946

:

Why are they doing and saying this?

947

:

Yeah.

948

:

Is it just 'cause they're an

asshole or they're like a,

949

:

being a manipulative person?

950

:

Or is it because they

probably don't feel safe?

951

:

All right, so

952

:

is there maybe, and then I'm gonna

invite the audience to think about this

953

:

too, um, one word or tiny practice that

you can use to help ground yourself

954

:

when things are feeling out of control?

955

:

And then if you feel comfortable,

feel free to share it with us, or

956

:

maybe just journal about it and, and

think about what that means for you.

957

:

But I will ask you to

958

:

Let it be?

959

:

Yeah.

960

:

The song came to mind.

961

:

Take the advice I had

tattooed on my body, um

962

:

I thi- like, for me it's, I think that

one of the things that I've been trying

963

:

to do for myself is, like, pausing.

964

:

Mm.

965

:

And because I find the, like, in the

pause or, like, in a breath is where

966

:

I can, like, ask myself, "Is this

actually the most important thing?"

967

:

Or, "Is it true that there's

only one way to do this?"

968

:

Or is it, like, "Is this necessary?"

969

:

And again, sometimes that means I have

to, like, remove myself for a moment

970

:

to, like, re-regulate my nervous system-

Mm-hmm … because that's what gets

971

:

all off-kilter when I feel unsafe.

972

:

Yeah.

973

:

But that pause and that breath is, like,

can be s- can make such a big difference

974

:

in, like, an interaction for me, and

that's where, that's where I'm trying to,

975

:

that's what I'm trying to practice, is

just, like, the awareness in the moment.

976

:

Mm.

977

:

I can't necessarily change what's

happening, like, in my body just yet,

978

:

but I'm trying to just become more aware.

979

:

Mm.

980

:

That feels like the first step for me.

981

:

I have to agree with that, 'cause I was

gonna mention, um, regulating myself, too.

982

:

Because in that moment I'm so

dysregulated, because I'm kinda

983

:

trying to figure out what the fuck

is happening in that moment, and

984

:

I don't know if it's them or me.

985

:

Mm-hmm.

986

:

And so I get so dysregulated, and my first

reaction to everything, like you say,

987

:

Stacy, too, it's, it's the anger, right?

988

:

So it's like the anger comes up.

989

:

And sometimes- Mm-hmm … I don't even

know, like- Right … who I'm angry at.

990

:

Why.

991

:

Right.

992

:

Yeah.

993

:

Like, is it them?

994

:

Or, or- Is it, like, am I mad at myself?

995

:

Like- Or is it even anger?

996

:

Like, for me it's like, am, is it anxiety?

997

:

Is it frustration?

998

:

Is it the, like, that- Right … it's

sometimes it's not even anger,

999

:

but it, the anger- Right.

:

00:48:35,665 --> 00:48:37,345

You have to figure it out … is

what shows up on the surface.

:

00:48:37,345 --> 00:48:37,795

Fear.

:

00:48:37,835 --> 00:48:38,415

Exactly.

:

00:48:38,415 --> 00:48:38,759

Fear.

:

00:48:38,759 --> 00:48:39,102

Exactly.

:

00:48:39,102 --> 00:48:39,445

Fear.

:

00:48:39,445 --> 00:48:40,065

Fear.

:

00:48:40,065 --> 00:48:40,225

Exactly.

:

00:48:40,225 --> 00:48:41,175

Exactly.

:

00:48:41,285 --> 00:48:41,825

Mm-hmm.

:

00:48:41,825 --> 00:48:44,955

So it's like I have to figure

all that out before I can- Yes

:

00:48:48,419 --> 00:48:52,169

deal with the actual part of, you know-

Exactly … wanting to control something.

:

00:48:54,089 --> 00:48:54,389

Yeah.

:

00:48:55,389 --> 00:48:56,349

Yeah, I love that.

:

00:48:57,619 --> 00:49:01,959

So I feel like we're all kind

of on the same s- first step,

:

00:49:01,959 --> 00:49:05,429

which is- Yeah … pause, notice.

:

00:49:05,429 --> 00:49:05,829

Yeah.

:

00:49:06,559 --> 00:49:09,689

And then, yeah.

:

00:49:10,019 --> 00:49:10,519

It's- And then you can…

:

00:49:10,549 --> 00:49:11,969

And, uh, 'cause once- Get curious, right?

:

00:49:12,019 --> 00:49:13,289

To me- Yes … it's get curious.

:

00:49:13,329 --> 00:49:13,579

Yes.

:

00:49:13,589 --> 00:49:17,299

So what's going on inside of me?

:

00:49:17,299 --> 00:49:19,109

What's going on outside of me?

:

00:49:19,169 --> 00:49:24,159

Like, just literally just start asking

questions, um- Yeah, because once

:

00:49:24,159 --> 00:49:26,689

you're calm- … from a non-judgmental,

compassionate place, right?

:

00:49:26,699 --> 00:49:26,719

So.

:

00:49:27,149 --> 00:49:31,349

Yeah, 'cause once you're calm,

I feel like then whatever it is

:

00:49:31,349 --> 00:49:32,689

that you're feeling can come up.

:

00:49:32,759 --> 00:49:35,839

'Cause in that initial instinct,

you're, you're, you're not in the

:

00:49:35,839 --> 00:49:40,379

right space to really look at it.

:

00:49:41,499 --> 00:49:41,739

Yeah.

:

00:49:43,939 --> 00:49:44,449

Yeah

:

00:49:46,541 --> 00:49:48,901

Good chat I'll keep trying.

:

00:49:49,591 --> 00:49:51,371

It's gonna be a work in progress.

:

00:49:51,431 --> 00:49:51,971

Oh, yeah.

:

00:49:52,011 --> 00:49:54,361

Always and forever Practice,

practice, practice.

:

00:49:54,371 --> 00:49:54,941

Yeah.

:

00:49:57,071 --> 00:49:59,651

I mean, it, that is what we

talk about that though, right?

:

00:49:59,651 --> 00:50:02,451

It's like everything we

talk about is a practice.

:

00:50:02,791 --> 00:50:04,361

We haven't perfected anything.

:

00:50:04,411 --> 00:50:06,111

I mean- No … I don't

know that I ever will.

:

00:50:06,291 --> 00:50:06,951

Well, I mean, I…

:

00:50:07,181 --> 00:50:07,991

Will I get better?

:

00:50:07,991 --> 00:50:12,401

Yes, but does that mean that something's

not gonna come up that's gonna trigger

:

00:50:12,401 --> 00:50:15,901

me to control something or whatever?

:

00:50:15,901 --> 00:50:17,391

Like, impossible.

:

00:50:17,431 --> 00:50:18,261

It's a practice.

:

00:50:18,941 --> 00:50:19,191

Yeah.

:

00:50:21,941 --> 00:50:27,791

And recognizing how much better we

are- Yeah … today than we were a

:

00:50:27,791 --> 00:50:30,031

year ago, five years ago, 10 years ago.

:

00:50:30,031 --> 00:50:30,851

Oh, my God.

:

00:50:30,851 --> 00:50:31,591

Oh, my God.

:

00:50:31,591 --> 00:50:32,411

Yeah, so.

:

00:50:33,351 --> 00:50:34,041

Totally.

:

00:50:34,261 --> 00:50:34,701

Yeah.

:

00:50:34,831 --> 00:50:35,411

Awesome.

:

00:50:35,791 --> 00:50:37,131

Thank you all so much.

:

00:50:37,321 --> 00:50:38,131

Thank you.

:

00:50:38,911 --> 00:50:39,561

That was awesome.

:

00:50:40,031 --> 00:50:40,291

Love you.

:

00:50:40,291 --> 00:50:40,851

Good shit, ladies.

:

00:50:41,241 --> 00:50:41,661

Love you.

:

00:50:41,891 --> 00:50:42,626

See you next time.

:

00:50:42,626 --> 00:50:42,941

Love you.

:

00:50:43,561 --> 00:50:43,871

Bye.

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About the Podcast

Three Rebel Souls
Three women's delightfully unserious, honest conversations on sovereignty, truth, and transforming pain into power for freedom and authenticity.
Three Rebel Souls is a no-bullshit podcast about reclaiming your truth — one messy, magical, and wildly human chapter at a time.
Hosted by three women who are still figuring shit out as we go, this is where we tell the stories we were told not to speak. The ones shaped by pain but reclaimed through power, plenty of f-bombs, and laughter.
We’re not here to be your gurus. Hell, most days we’re still trying to remember who we are. But we believe that our stories—told honestly and without shame—can be medicine.
So come along as we drop the masks, say ‘fuck that’ to anything that dims our fire, and stumble our way through the beauty, the bullshit, and everything in between.

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