Episode 3: Erica's story
In this episode of Three Rebel Souls, Erica takes the mic and tells her story, the real one, not the polished version. Not the version shaped to make everyone else comfortable. The one with the messy middle, the hard choices, the quiet heartbreaks, and the sacred little rebellions that eventually led her back to herself.
This conversation is about what happens when the life you’re “supposed” to want starts feeling too small for the woman you’re becoming.
Erica shares pieces of her journey through self-discovery, reflection, and reclaiming her own truth; including the moments when outside expectations, old stories, and other people’s ideas of who she should be started clashing with what her soul actually wanted.
We talk about resilience, self-acceptance, and the courage it takes to stop abandoning yourself just to keep the peace. We also explore the power of being surrounded by people who don’t need you to perform, shrink, or explain your becoming; people who can witness the real you and say, “Yes. More of that.”
This episode is a reminder that your story is not something to hide from. It’s medicine. It’s evidence. It’s the map that shows you how far you’ve come and how much power you still have to choose what comes next.
As always, we’re not here to wrap it all up in a perfect bow. We’re here for the truth, the tenderness, the fuckery, and the freedom that comes when we finally stop living by someone else’s script.
Mentioned in this episode:
Welcome to Three Rebel Souls
Erica's wrap
Transcript
All righty.
Speaker A:Well, we are back, and Today we have Ms. Erica telling us all about her.
Speaker B:Hi.
Speaker A:So excited.
Speaker A:So excited to hear this.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker B:I took my heating pad off because now I'm just hot.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker A:Because we put all the focus on you.
Speaker B:A little sweaty.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:I don't like.
Speaker B:I don't like being in the hot seat or in the spotlight, but we're gonna do it because we can do hard things temporary.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker C:Yeah, you've seen.
Speaker C:You've been on the other side, and it feels good, actually.
Speaker A:I'm excited.
Speaker A:I'm excited to hear it.
Speaker A:So tell us.
Speaker A:Tell us about you.
Speaker B:I feel like this is important part of the process.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Well, do we want to do a check in first?
Speaker B:How are we feeling today?
Speaker A:Today?
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker A:I am.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:I woke up feeling good.
Speaker A:I had some crazy dreams last night, but I can't remember what they were, but I feel like they were good.
Speaker A:I just can't remember exactly what they were.
Speaker A:Oh, I remember horses.
Speaker A:Horses.
Speaker A:Oh, horses.
Speaker A:Ponies.
Speaker A:A lot of ponies.
Speaker A:I have to look that up.
Speaker A:Excuse me.
Speaker A:Yeah, I have to look it up, but I feel good.
Speaker A:I'm going out tonight.
Speaker A:I'm going dancing, so I'm going to shake it tonight.
Speaker A:I'm excited for that.
Speaker A:And, yeah.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:I've been trying to put out feelers, and that gets out of my comfort zone a little bit.
Speaker C:So I'm gonna meet some people.
Speaker B:Are you auditioning other friends?
Speaker B:Ew.
Speaker C:For a walk?
Speaker B:What's happening?
Speaker C:I know.
Speaker C:How could I?
Speaker C:I'm gonna go meet some other ladies in the neighborhood for a walk on Wednesday.
Speaker C:So I'm excited about that.
Speaker C:And then Wednesday's a big day.
Speaker C:That's.
Speaker C:We're gonna do our next podcast, and then I'm gonna go for a walk, and then I'm going to, like, audition for my friend who's a musician as a backup vocals.
Speaker B:What?
Speaker A:That's great.
Speaker C:Oh, yeah.
Speaker C:Totally pushing the comfort lines here, because all of those things are like, E.
Speaker A:But hold on a second.
Speaker A:I didn't know you sang.
Speaker B:I did.
Speaker A:See?
Speaker A:You do learn something new every day.
Speaker B:That was revealed at the lake house.
Speaker A:Was I there?
Speaker B:Maybe you hadn't gotten there yet.
Speaker A:Yeah, I don't think I had gotten there yet.
Speaker C:Oh, yeah.
Speaker C:Erica's like, I can't sing.
Speaker C:And then she was, like, jamming the entire time on the way back from Letchworth.
Speaker B:But I cannot sing.
Speaker B:I'm not well.
Speaker C:Oh, my God.
Speaker B:Everybody can sing, but sounds other people would pay money to hear.
Speaker B:Don't come out of me.
Speaker B:When I say I feel the same.
Speaker C:Way, I say I can carry a tune.
Speaker C:That's what I say.
Speaker C:But no, I took voice lessons in.
Speaker C:In high school for a little while, but it's nothing.
Speaker C:My dream as a teenager was to be a backup singer because I hate being the center of attention.
Speaker B:That's amazing.
Speaker B:My dream was to be a backup dancer.
Speaker A:I was to be a singer also.
Speaker B:For the same reason.
Speaker B:And here we've our Sagittarius.
Speaker B:Fiery energy.
Speaker B:Like, put me right up front.
Speaker C:Look at me.
Speaker A:Oh, my God, that's so funny.
Speaker A:We've never talked about this before, but I always thought that I would.
Speaker A:I always wanted to, like, be a singer.
Speaker B:I'm crying.
Speaker A:The three rebel souls on tour singing.
Speaker B:Oh, boy, oh, boy.
Speaker C:I'm shaking my head vigorously.
Speaker C:Yeah, that sounds like a nightmare.
Speaker B:Let me just, like, like, curl in on myself for a minute.
Speaker A:So funny.
Speaker A:Yeah, no, I wouldn't attempt that.
Speaker A:I've never even had one single voice lesson not happening out of this box.
Speaker C:Maybe we'll do a podcast where we each sing a little verse or something.
Speaker A:Yeah, no, no, It'll be fun.
Speaker C:We can do.
Speaker C:We can do scary things.
Speaker B:That sounds like a great way to lose whatever listeners we're able to get.
Speaker B:You are only speaking for myself.
Speaker C:Erica can carry a tune.
Speaker C:F. Okay.
Speaker A:I cannot.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Well.
Speaker C:And how are you, Erica?
Speaker B:I'm good.
Speaker B:I feel like it's been another.
Speaker B:There were a lot of good things this week, especially, like, at work that happened all in a row, which was awesome.
Speaker B:But I've also been doing a lot of reflecting on this, and, like, how do I.
Speaker B:How do I tell this story in one episode way as, like, the starting point?
Speaker B:Like, what are the.
Speaker B:What are the things?
Speaker B:So, of course, like, I've.
Speaker B:I've been revisiting a lot of things, and that's been an interesting little roller coaster to go on, kind of preparing for this episode, but here we are.
Speaker B:So I'm ready.
Speaker B:Let's rip off the band aid.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:Tell us a little bit about yourself.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:So I think what's maybe been difficult for me in sharing my story because not a lot of people know the details of, like, all of my story, is that I'm.
Speaker B:I'm still kind of afraid of the.
Speaker B:I don't.
Speaker B:I'm not afraid of what people will think, because I think I've come to a place where I'm, like, very secure, and I know that I've made all the right choices because of where I am now.
Speaker B:Like, any one different thing would have landed me in a different place, and then I wouldn't be here.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:So I'm.
Speaker B:I'm.
Speaker B:I'm at peace with, like, all of that.
Speaker B:But it's interesting when you tell your story the way people react to it, because my story isn't a story about, like, escaping a bad life or, like, all these terrible things happen to me.
Speaker B:It was more about abandoning a good life that wasn't my life, which is a very different thing.
Speaker B:But when I was reflecting on this and trying to think about how to articulate that in a way that maybe will resonate with some people, the best way that I can think about this is that feels like I was given this picture of what a perfect life should look like.
Speaker B:And along with that picture, it looks like a paint by number.
Speaker B:It's, like, divided into sections, and it's like, you put this color here and this color here, and everything has to be exactly this way.
Speaker B:And when it's all done, this perfect image will come to life.
Speaker B:This beautiful image will come to life, and it'll be all, like, butterflies and rainbows, right?
Speaker B:So it was like a paint by number that I was given that was sort of like, here's.
Speaker B:Here's the recipe.
Speaker B:And one thing to know about me is that I've always been a rule follower.
Speaker B:I never got in trouble for, like, anything ever.
Speaker B:Growing up, I was definitely, like.
Speaker B:I was just the little.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:I was very compliant as a child.
Speaker B:I was.
Speaker B:I learned the rule of the world around me, and I followed them.
Speaker B:So, of course, then when people or society give you this, like, paint by number and it comes with rules, you're like, okay, I can do this.
Speaker B:I can put the blue here, and I can put the red here, and I can put the purple here, and I'll, like.
Speaker B:And I'm gonna.
Speaker B:I'm gonna do everything exactly the way I'm supposed to do it.
Speaker B:So I, you know, I wanted to, like, fill in the picture correctly.
Speaker B:And I think that's partially, like, the way I'm wired.
Speaker B:I just sort of have, like, a natural disposition to, like, systems and rules.
Speaker B:But also, we were parented by the because I said so generation.
Speaker B:So I also.
Speaker B:I think I learned very early that I shouldn't question the rules.
Speaker B:And then there was also this, like, little side side story of my parents divorced when I was seven.
Speaker B:For me, even as a child, I remember, like, of course, I was upset about it at first, but very quickly that turned into, like, the realization that this was better, and it was almost a Relief not having them be in the same place anymore because they were both much happier individuals on their own.
Speaker B:They just.
Speaker B:They never really seem to like each other very much.
Speaker B:But also, I think that can mostly be traced to my dad, who's alcoholic and a bit of a narcissist, but that's like a whole other story.
Speaker B:But at any rate, I looked at.
Speaker B:I looked at their marriage, and I was like, okay, well, here's another rule I'm learning.
Speaker B:Do the opposite of whatever this is.
Speaker B:Like, just this ain't it.
Speaker B:So take all of this and just go to the other extreme and do that, and then things will be good, right?
Speaker B:So I did all the things I did really well in school.
Speaker B:I participated in all the sports.
Speaker B:I was on the teams.
Speaker B:I did the things.
Speaker B:I had, quote, unquote, friends.
Speaker B:At least it looked like I did on the surface level.
Speaker B:I went to college, I graduated, and I got a job.
Speaker B:I, you know, continued to, like, progress through my career.
Speaker B:I got married to a really nice guy.
Speaker B:We got a dog.
Speaker B:We moved around to a couple different cities.
Speaker B:We lived different places.
Speaker B:We had some fun adventures.
Speaker B:And about nine years into our marriage, we bought a house, which was a massive feat in and of itself in the greater Boston area.
Speaker B:But I just remember thinking once we got there and we were, like, kind of settled in and I had, you know, made everything look, like, so beautiful inside and, like, picked out the curtains and the carpets and all the, like, all the furniture, I just remember thinking, like, okay, I filled in all the colors.
Speaker B:When is this going to get good?
Speaker B:And it was just this, I think at first, like, a bit of a slow burn.
Speaker B:Like, I had achieved so many things, and I'd done all the things I was, quote, unquote, supposed to do, but I was still feeling really unfulfilled.
Speaker B:And frankly, I was, like, tired.
Speaker B:I was just exhausted from, you know, in retrospect, I think it was just a lot of, like, probably unhealthy striving or, like, this obsession with perfectionism.
Speaker B:So that's the short version.
Speaker A:One thing that's just stuck out to me when you said about being happy with the divorce,.
Speaker B:It.
Speaker A:Which is funny because, like, you're seven years old and you were wise enough to know that that was better for you, right?
Speaker A:And as we know, so many people stay in marriages for the children because they think that they know everything that's best.
Speaker A:And they never include the children, even in discussions of how they might feel, because maybe they're afraid of what the K would feel, how they, you know, because it might be upsetting or whatnot, but I can totally relate to it feeling more like a relief.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:Like, did you feel more like a relief because from, like, all the chaos.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Everything was much more.
Speaker B:Well, I shouldn't say everything, right.
Speaker B:Because there was still.
Speaker B:We went back and forth between houses, and there was still, like, the side of it where my dad was quite unpredictable, ironically enough.
Speaker B:Like, he was the one who opted to end the marriage.
Speaker B:But, like, my.
Speaker B:I think my mom, if she'd had her way, was sort of more in that mindset.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Again, because that's what they were told.
Speaker B:It's till death do us part, no matter what.
Speaker B:Stay in it for the kids.
Speaker B:And I know she did.
Speaker B:She wouldn't have wanted to do anything that would harm me or my brother.
Speaker B:So I. I remember, like, consciously understanding, like, okay, well, they're in two different places now.
Speaker B:They can't fight anymore, so that's good.
Speaker B:There was still a little bit of, like, volatility just with my dad's unpredictable personality, but for the most part, everything was better after that.
Speaker A:And what was the relationship with your dad like after that?
Speaker A:Was there a relationship?
Speaker B:Well, for a while there was, because I was very young and very naive, right.
Speaker B:So, like, I.
Speaker B:Like, my dad was a big sports guy, and like I said, I played sports.
Speaker B:My brother played sports.
Speaker B:So, like, a lot of our stuff revolved around sports.
Speaker B:And, like, we grew up going to Penn State games.
Speaker B:And that was always fun because it was always a big show and, you know, a show that my dad would put on for his friends at the tailgate, because that was sort of like the.
Speaker B:The theme.
Speaker B:And for a while, we just.
Speaker B:Like, he was the unparent, right?
Speaker B:Like, he was the one who always tried to be our friend.
Speaker B:And so for a while, I thought that that was better in retrospect, I realized the structure that.
Speaker B:The structure and the stability that my mom provided is actually what's serving me well in adulthood.
Speaker B:Like, the things I learned from her are what serves me well.
Speaker B:So for a while, I had a good relationship with my dad, and, like, I maybe like, a typical tumultuous, like, mother, daughter, teenage relationship, but that shifted when I started to get a little bit older and wiser and see my dad for who he was.
Speaker B:And then when I met my husband and started dating him, and I met his parents who were still together and who were incredibly like, kind people with a very, like, stable family who actually liked each other and loved spending time together, and, like, it was just the same very, like, lovely Dynamic.
Speaker B:I remember the first time I experienced that.
Speaker B:I was like, oh, oh, this is how it was supposed to be.
Speaker B:And so I feel like what happened then was just this, like, series of events that led me to try to, like, set better boundaries with my dad, of which he just, you know, completely disregarded and continued to, like, violate.
Speaker B:And so I tried boundaries.
Speaker B:I tried having more direct conversations.
Speaker B: g, no contact, which I did in: Speaker B:So it's been 18 years since I talked to my dad or had a.
Speaker B:Had any kind of relationship with him, which was both the hardest thing I've ever done and the best thing I've ever done for myself.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I don't, I don't have any regrets about that because again, in retrospect, as I, as I kind of, like, you know, as I left home and I went to college and I met other people and had different experiences, and I kind of, like, learned a little bit more about the world, I kind of could see how the things that were normalized growing up were not normal and were not things that I had to accept or tolerate anymore.
Speaker B:And so I feel like that was the first massive shift for me.
Speaker B:But it was because I sort of had the safety net of, like, this relationship and this family showing me what, what good looked like.
Speaker B:And that's not to say that, like, my mom's family also didn't have a lot of bright spots.
Speaker B:My mom's family is very close.
Speaker B:Like, they're very supportive.
Speaker B:I'm still, like, I still see them a lot.
Speaker B:But my dad's family was very different.
Speaker B:So I had, like, this other family now showing me what better relationships look like.
Speaker B:And that sort of gave me the confidence to say, like, okay, well, I'm definitely not willing to accept this anymore.
Speaker B:And so I think I was, like, 23 when I cut off contact with my dad.
Speaker C:Okay, so along those lines, when you talk about building a life that was opposite of what you had experienced, what, what was that like?
Speaker C:Was that a different rule book?
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean, I thought that was the antidote.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:But it was, it turned out that it was just as much of a cage as the first version of the rule book.
Speaker B:It was just a different set of rules.
Speaker B:And so while I say, like, you know, I had this, you know, this partner who had a relatively easy childhood and, like, a very stable family, and they, they liked each other, they spent time together, I, I, I feel like it was almost.
Speaker B:It was, it's kind of like imposter syndrome in my marriage where I Felt like I could never really let them see me because I knew some of the, like, kind of the darker parts of my childhood where, like, you know, like, my dad was pretty manipulative.
Speaker B:He was, like, emotionally abusive.
Speaker B:He never hit my brother and I.
Speaker B:But he was really good at gaslighting, you know, like, a lot of narcissists are.
Speaker B:And so I feel like there were just, like, parts that I could never vocalize or let them see.
Speaker B:And also, because I didn't grow up in that dynamic the way they did, it took me a while to figure out how to function in that dynamic, to feel comfortable in that dynamic, if that makes sense, because it was so foreign to me.
Speaker A:I have a question, though.
Speaker A:Did you.
Speaker A:Did you.
Speaker A:In all the time that you were in this family, did you ever notice any dysfunction in the family?
Speaker A:Or were they always just that loving and caring kind of people?
Speaker B:I mean, nobody's perfect, right?
Speaker B:Like, nobody's perfect.
Speaker B:And I think.
Speaker B:I think the dysfunction came from the same pattern that repeated itself in my marriage, which I could then see in, like, other family dynamics, was the avoidance of conflict, right?
Speaker B:So, like, I thought growing up in a household, well, for seven years at least, that was in conflict quite often that the absence of conflict in my marriage was a good thing, but it was not.
Speaker B:It was.
Speaker B:It was an avoidance conflict, right?
Speaker B:So it would be where, like, I could bring something up that was bothering me, and my husband was kind of, like, passive, and so would just.
Speaker B:I don't.
Speaker B:I don't even know how to explain the dynamic, but felt like nothing was ever difficult or contentious.
Speaker B:It felt very easy for me.
Speaker B:Looking back, I can't imagine that it would have been easy for him because I feel like he was maybe, like, harboring things or just, like, not vocalizing his own stuff or, like, trying to, like, avoid conflict.
Speaker B:I. I can't really be sure.
Speaker B:Like, I can't say with 100% certainty that that was his experience, but I can't help but think that, like,.
Speaker A:We.
Speaker B:Were together for 13 years.
Speaker B:There's no way I didn't do shit that didn't annoy you.
Speaker B:There's no way I didn't do stuff that, like, didn't bother you, but it was never really brought up.
Speaker B:And so I feel like, again, in retrospect, while it felt like everything was happy and everything was comfortable and easy, I. I'm kind of seeing that, like, there was probably a little bit of that type of dynamic.
Speaker B:Maybe it was, like, more avoidance or, you know, whatever.
Speaker B:But I still.
Speaker B:I still know that, like, There were parts of me that felt like I didn't fit in because I couldn't be 100% authentic in that environment.
Speaker B:And parts of me that didn't necessarily feel worthy of that level of ease because relationships, like family dynamic relationships hadn't been that easy for me for the rest of my life.
Speaker B:You know, it hadn't been that, like, effortless.
Speaker B:I had had to work really hard as a kid.
Speaker B:Like I was a very hyper, vigilant child, always on alert, like looking for the signs that things like, was about to hit the fan or there was going to be like some kind of anger, upset, whatever.
Speaker B:So it was confusing to my nervous system, I think, to be in that state of calm.
Speaker B:But I never.
Speaker B:I still didn't feel like I could really relax, if that makes sense, because I couldn't.
Speaker B:Couldn't be authentic.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Because silently you were given the message that not here.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So, so interesting.
Speaker A:So you started seeing how that played out in your marriage and was.
Speaker A:Was that what, like, was that one of the things that caused you to like, really look at your marriage and see whether it really was for you?
Speaker B:I feel like along the way there were several little seeds that were planted, but I didn't necessarily see them all until I started looking backwards.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Like, so I.
Speaker B:The one moment that I do remember very clearly was that I was in a job and I had to travel to Denver for work a lot.
Speaker B:I was there like at least once a month for like a week at a time.
Speaker B:And I remember being at dinner with all my work friends who I loved.
Speaker B:Like, I had the best, like, people that I worked with.
Speaker B:And I always looked forward to these trips because I got to like, be with people that I really enjoyed spending time with.
Speaker B:We were out to like dinner and drinks after work and obviously there's like a two hour time difference.
Speaker B:So it was like 7pm we were just like right in the middle of dinner in Denver when my husband would be like starting to like wind down and get ready for bed and wanted to talk before he went to bed.
Speaker B:And I remember being so, so annoyed that I had to get up from the table and step outside at the restaurant to say goodnight to him.
Speaker B:And then I was like, ooh, why am I annoyed?
Speaker B:But then, but then I also remember like starting to notice that I was like getting sad when I had to go home.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And then I was like, oh, why Norm?
Speaker B:Because I'm like a homebody.
Speaker B:I would rather be at home seven days a week.
Speaker B:I would rather not leave my house.
Speaker B:I Would rather, like, sometimes I have to, like, force myself to, like, go to Walgreens or the grocery store just because I'm like, hey, I don't think I've left the house in three days.
Speaker B:Maybe I should go at least lay eyes on another human being.
Speaker B:You know what I mean?
Speaker B:Like, I just should probably interact with society a little bit.
Speaker B:I'm just, like, super cozy being at home, my dogs.
Speaker B:But so it was weird to me.
Speaker B:I think it.
Speaker B:I started to notice how weird it felt to be, like, sad to be going home to my comfort place, that I was getting, like, more comfortable in, like, Airbnbs with my work friends and, like, in hotels with my work friends than I was going home.
Speaker B:So I was, like, started to scratch my head on that one a little bit.
Speaker B:But the real catalyst, unfortunately, I think this happened for so many people, was then, like, I came home from a work trip on Friday, March 13, and, like, the very next Monday was when the world shut down for Covid.
Speaker B:Like, there were.
Speaker B:We were concerned about even getting home because they were already starting to be, like, whispers of, like, flight, flights shutting down and, like, things.
Speaker B:But we got home on Friday, and then on Monday, like, the whole world shut down.
Speaker B:And I don't know if it was, like, the.
Speaker B:The realization that, like, now you can't go anywhere and this is the only person you get to interact with.
Speaker B:And I was like, whoa.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Ouch.
Speaker B:But so then I started just kind of, like, reflecting on that, and I was in.
Speaker B:I was.
Speaker B:I had been getting into, like, kind of learning about, dipping my toes into, like, spirituality, personal development, like, a lot of that work for probably about three or four years pre pandemic.
Speaker B:But then when I.
Speaker B:You know, I think we all sort of had a thing that we wanted to focus our energy and intention on during that time, to maybe forget what was going on in the world around us or maybe just keep us busy.
Speaker B:I kind of went full tilt in just trying to learn more about myself and dig into some of these feelings that were coming up, because I knew that that was a problem, and I was really trying hard to discern.
Speaker B:Do I just feel this way because I feel like I don't have a choice because I feel like I've lost my autonomy?
Speaker B:Or do I feel this way because there's something there?
Speaker B:And I thought of.
Speaker B:I kind.
Speaker B:I kind of thought back to all those moments where I was like, we've literally never had a fight, or, like, I've never felt 100% at home with this family, like, with this family, like, I never felt like I really fit in.
Speaker B:Like, I was a little bit of.
Speaker A:The,.
Speaker B:Like I was on the fringe, right?
Speaker B:Like they, they, they welcomed me in.
Speaker B:But it's almost like I was afraid to fully step in and show myself because of the messages I had received and that, like, I think I carried shame about things that were not necessarily shameful, but it was not polished the way that this was.
Speaker B:And so it felt like it didn't fit.
Speaker B:And then I also started noticing or thinking about the fact that like, we had taken all these like awesome vacations and like, had all these fun adventures and like, we did a lot of fun stuff together.
Speaker B:In between.
Speaker B:It was like sitting on the couch next to each other staring at our cell phones or like watching the same shows with no real emotional depth or connection.
Speaker B:And then I was, and then I started thinking about like, okay, well, there have been moments where I tried to like, share things about like my childhood and our family dynamic.
Speaker B:And I wasn't, I wasn't in any way, like dismissed or made to feel like any level of shame about it.
Speaker B:But I also wasn't met with curiosity,.
Speaker A:Like, indifference.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:And I, I just feel like what I need is to like.
Speaker B:Because I feel like my, my way of doing this is to sort of test the waters to be like, here's a tiny sliver of what I'm thinking or feeling.
Speaker B:And then like what you do with my tiny sliver tells me everything about whether or not we're going to be close.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:Because if you're, if you grab onto it and like pull on that thread and you want to know more and you want to understand me and you, and you show like kind of empathy and non judgment, then I'm like, okay, we're safe in the depths here.
Speaker B:But if I give this sliver and it's just sort of like it's not met with judgment, but it's also not met with curiosity.
Speaker B:I'm just like, okay, but like, but like there's more.
Speaker B:Do you want the more or, or should I just.
Speaker B:I'll just, I'll just keep, I'll just keep that.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:It's just gonna, I'm gonna hold it.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:It's just mine.
Speaker B:You haven't earned it.
Speaker B:And so I think it was just the realization too that like, I don't think he's a.
Speaker B:Who's such a nice person, like such a good person, but I don't think that he could meet me in the depths that like, I need, which I understand is a lot because I'm A very, like, empathic, like, deeply feeling person.
Speaker B:And if that's not natural to you or if, like, you.
Speaker B:What?
Speaker B:Deep for you is like, a different level than deep for me, and it just doesn't match up.
Speaker B:It's no one's fault.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:Like, it's not.
Speaker B:It wasn't wrong.
Speaker B:It just wasn't right for me because it wasn't what I need.
Speaker A:Yeah, you're, like, misaligned.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker B:So I feel like the end of my marriage was more like death by a thousand paper cuts.
Speaker B:And it was, like, things that I could only see in retrospect.
Speaker B:Of all the times where I've just sort of, like, where I had just sort of, like, accepted or normalized.
Speaker B:Like, the amount of times I just need to, like, ask for help around the house.
Speaker B:Like, I normalized all of that.
Speaker B:Like, you live here, too.
Speaker B:Can you please just.
Speaker B:Look, you please just take in this room and know what needs to be done without me having to, like, ask for it.
Speaker C:Preach.
Speaker B:The amount.
Speaker B:The amount of times that I, like, You know, gave those tiny little offerings, and they weren't treated with the curiosity or care that I needed, so I stopped giving the offerings, like, and I didn't even realize.
Speaker B:That wasn't even, like, a conscious decision I was making.
Speaker B:I think I just sort of, like, internalized and learned.
Speaker B:Like, that's not.
Speaker B:You're not.
Speaker A:Because suddenly he's telling you no.
Speaker B:Right, Right.
Speaker A:He's still sending the message.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And again, like, not maliciously.
Speaker B:It just.
Speaker B:It.
Speaker B:He didn't have the capacity to meet me where I needed him to meet me.
Speaker B:But then I also started to notice and think about things in retrospective.
Speaker B:Like, when we first got married, he had all these friends he was in touch with.
Speaker B:We would, like, go visit them and go hang out with them.
Speaker B:And over time, he lost touch with all of his friends.
Speaker B:And I feel like a lot of his identity was getting wrapped up in, like, us and our marriage.
Speaker B:And then.
Speaker B:So every time I would, like, discover something, like, when I first started getting into, like, meditation or, like, you know, those kinds of things, I would say like, hey, I did.
Speaker B:Like, I learned this, and I'm really excited to try it.
Speaker B:And I'm, you know, I want to keep learning about it.
Speaker B:And it would be like, okay, yeah, let's do that.
Speaker B:And I was like, it's.
Speaker B:That's my thing that I want to do.
Speaker B:For me, I appreciate that you're taking interest in my interests.
Speaker B:But I started to feel like then I was sort of carrying the weight of the relationship because it was up to me to find the new things that we were interested in or we were going to do together, if that makes sense.
Speaker B:And, like, again, this is, like, my perspective of.
Speaker B:I felt like, yes, I want to share these things with you, but then it got to a point where, like, maybe I don't want to share these things with you if I.
Speaker B:If I want things that I get to just sort of have for myself, because I was trying to figure out my own identity.
Speaker B:And so, like, that was a.
Speaker B:It was just a lot to kind of untangle.
Speaker B:But the real kicker and the thing that made me actually ask for a divorce was when I came to the relationship realization that I didn't actually want kids.
Speaker B:Like, that was the part of the paint by number we hadn't yet colored in.
Speaker B:And I was like, oh, yeah, but I don't.
Speaker B:That's not interesting to me at all.
Speaker B:And so I don't like this picture.
Speaker B:And so we're not gonna color that one.
Speaker B:We get, like, that's.
Speaker B:If we go down that path, then there is no return.
Speaker B:Like, right.
Speaker B:So I was like, I feel like I need to draw the line here.
Speaker B:And I knew that that was a thing that was so important to him, and that, frankly, like, I didn't want to be the one who deprived him of being a dad, because I knew he'd be a fantastic dad.
Speaker B:And so this wasn't a scenario where I was like, yeah, we're going to have this kid, and everything's going to be on me, and I'm going to have, like, you know, it wasn't going to be that stereotypical, like, dad does nothing, mom does everything, and mom burns out scenario.
Speaker B:I knew that was not going to be the case.
Speaker B:I knew he was going to be an amazing dad.
Speaker B:I just didn't want him to be a mom.
Speaker B:And so coming to that was the moment where I was like, okay, well, now that I've seen it, I can't pretend that I didn't see it.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And I felt like the only path forward was to say, like, you know, I don't want to be the one to hold you back from this thing that I know you want and I know is important to you.
Speaker B:And the hardest part about these conversations was that, like, he was like, okay, well, like, let me just think about this for a little while.
Speaker B:And he, like, literally, like, went for a run and came back, like.
Speaker B:And we talked four hours later, we sat down.
Speaker B:He's like, I'm okay with it.
Speaker B:And I was like, respectfully, you're not You.
Speaker B:It's literally been four hours since we had this conversation.
Speaker B:That is not enough time for you to process a completely different life path than the one that you envisioned.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And so that was another moment where I was like, I felt a lot of pressure and attachment to like the identity of being the husband and being in a marriage and like all of those things.
Speaker B:And I was like, I.
Speaker B:That to me felt more suffocating, like.
Speaker A:Too much responsibility on you.
Speaker A:Like you felt that whole weight of responsibility over the whole of him.
Speaker A:You like everything.
Speaker B:Well, because I was like, you can say that right now.
Speaker B:What are you going to say in five years or 10 years when I still haven't changed my mind and now you regret not ever having had kids.
Speaker B:Right, Right.
Speaker A:And then resent you for it.
Speaker B:And I, I was like, I can't.
Speaker B:I can't be that person.
Speaker B:And so it was very much a.
Speaker B:There was a moment.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:Because it was Covid and we couldn't go anywhere but know was like hitting the fan at work and everything was like crazy.
Speaker B:We were working like 12, 14 hour days trying to just keep things afloat and like keep the wheels on the bus because everything was hard.
Speaker B:I was like, I cannot be in this house right now because now the energy had completely shifted.
Speaker B:So I went and I stayed in like a apartment hotel for like a month.
Speaker B:I just booked like a long term stay during a pandemic in a city that was like the.
Speaker B:There weren't a lot of places that were even allowing reservations.
Speaker B:So I literally had to go like two hours away.
Speaker B:But I packed up a bunch of clothes and some things for like the kitchen and.
Speaker B:And I stayed for a month in a hotel.
Speaker B:And I remember sitting in my hotel room and I. I took a ton of books.
Speaker B:I took like all my cards and I took my yoga mat and I took.
Speaker B:And I was like, this is.
Speaker B:I need to be sure before we actually start moving forward with this.
Speaker B:I need to be sure.
Speaker B:And I needed.
Speaker B:The only way for me to work through it was to have some like time and space again because the energy in the house had shifted so much.
Speaker B:I was like, I can't think clearly here.
Speaker B:So I went this hotel and I was like working through all this stuff and I was journaling every morning and like yoga and meditation and like trying to figure out how all these tools that I had just started learning about were really going to help me through this.
Speaker B:And I was sitting on the couch reading one night and I was reading Eat, Pray, Love and there's a line in that book that said there's no such thing as One Way Liberation.
Speaker B:And I was like, so true.
Speaker B:Or was that from Untamed?
Speaker B:It was from Untamed, but it was Elizabeth Gilbert who said it to Glennon Doyle to edit that part.
Speaker B:So I was reading Untamed, and it was a scene in the book where Elizabeth Gilbert says to Glennon Doyle, there's no such thing as One Way Liberation.
Speaker B:If it's best for you, it's best for everyone involved.
Speaker B:And I was like, oh, okay.
Speaker B:So I saw myself feeling guilty.
Speaker B:I saw myself being worried about what people would say when they found out I'd ended a good marriage to a good man.
Speaker B:And that's what was holding me back.
Speaker B:But what I had, what I knew to be true more clearly than anything I'd ever known before, was that this wasn't right for me.
Speaker B:And I can't explain unless you felt that feeling, what it feels like to know something so absolute.
Speaker B:But that's the only thing that gave me the confidence to continue moving forward in spite of literally everything that was happening around me.
Speaker C:That's very interesting because I wrote a whole thing about that to come back to, but I think we should maybe dive into ending our marriages in a completely separate episode because I think we have so much to talk about with that.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:So moving on to now.
Speaker C:What is that?
Speaker C:Where are you now?
Speaker B:Well, we're at the beginning of March, so it's almost six years removed from that initial conversation.
Speaker B:And I can say that, like, that phase of my life or like, the rebuilding after the very intentional destruction of this life that I had built, trying to, like, make sure the rebuilding was difficult.
Speaker B:And I would say, like, in some ways it's.
Speaker B:It's still in progress, but I think it's always going to be in progress because there's still moments where I'm trying to, like, untangle what I was told to want from what I actually want.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And I want to say that with the disclaimer that, like, not everything on that little paint by number I was given was something that I reject.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Like, I.
Speaker B:There's parts of it that are true.
Speaker B:There's also parts of it that were like, well, you told me to paint this purple, and I actually want to paint it green.
Speaker B:Like, there's parts that maybe are just a little bit different than what a quote unquote, picture perfect or Norm would look like.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:So I'm.
Speaker B:I'm at a much better place.
Speaker B:But it's.
Speaker B:It was like a hard earned confidence and trust in myself that was the result of a lot of introspection and alone time, like, immediately following that period of, like, leaving my husband and getting a divorce.
Speaker B:Are we done?
Speaker B:No, we are not.
Speaker B:We're not done.
Speaker B:We will never be done.
Speaker B:But I will say that I. I now can notice, or at least I have the tools to, like, discern when something starts to feel performative or untrue for me or, you know, anything adjacent to that.
Speaker B:And my window of tolerance for that is just so much smaller than it used to be.
Speaker B:Like, I just.
Speaker B:I can't anymore.
Speaker B:Which I think is, like, I think I've just sort of reclaimed myself.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:You're so much more in tune with yourself that you can recognize those things so, so much quicker.
Speaker A:I just.
Speaker A:I love listening to you because it's just, you know, I'm glad that Sloan brought up the whole thing of us having a whole separate episode on.
Speaker A:On ending the marriages, because there are so many similarities.
Speaker A:Even if all the details aren't exactly the same, A lot of the feelings were.
Speaker A:And it's.
Speaker A:You know, it sucks to go through all of that.
Speaker A:And I think so many people are afraid to go through that because of the stories we've been told.
Speaker A:But like you said, the.
Speaker A:The work is never done.
Speaker A:But life gets so much better when you choose yourself.
Speaker A:Like, it.
Speaker A:It really just gets so much better.
Speaker A:And again, I bring it back to, you do hard things, but you do get rewarded.
Speaker A:You.
Speaker A:You get rewarded.
Speaker A:You get rewarded with amazing people that end up coming in your life to.
Speaker A:You know, And I always bring it back to that because.
Speaker A:Well, because it's so true for me, you know, like, we have so many similarities, right?
Speaker A:Like, we've gone through so many similar things, and those things are what brought us together.
Speaker A:Because while we felt so alone in our past life, like, the universe is like, I'm going to bring you these people here who understand everything about you, and you're going to continue going together, growing, and just enjoying life.
Speaker A:And I love it.
Speaker A:And I love the way you articulate your story.
Speaker A:Again, as I'm listening to you tell your story, I'm like, this is why she understands me so well, right?
Speaker A:Like, because, again, so many similarities.
Speaker A:Like, I. I.
Speaker A:As you were speaking, I just kept thinking of when we first met and how our initial conversation was so great, but then you had to coach me, so you couldn't really.
Speaker A:It wasn't an even exchange.
Speaker A:It was me telling you everything, but.
Speaker A:But then when you got to tell me about you, I just remember, like, holy shit.
Speaker A:You know, like, Everything that I was saying was so similar to what you're saying now.
Speaker A:So, Yeah, I.
Speaker A:It just feels so good to find people who see you, understand you and grow with you and just are along for the ride, you know, to help you along the way.
Speaker A:I love that.
Speaker B:Yeah, I agree.
Speaker B:I do think.
Speaker B:I do agree with the sentiment that, like, your.
Speaker B:Your authenticity or just kind of following your intuition even, is.
Speaker B:Is rewarded with people who can meet you when you're able to, like, in those moments, say, this is good.
Speaker B:This is fine.
Speaker B:I should be grateful for this.
Speaker B:Like, as soon as you start shoulding yourself, then you're like, oh, well, maybe there's still something here that doesn't feel quite right.
Speaker B:So what would it look like if I just made space for the right thing to come?
Speaker B:And as soon as you do, man, does the universe ever just knock yourself off?
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker B:I think the hardest.
Speaker B:That was the hardest thing for me was just acknowledging that, like, good and should be grateful is not the same as living.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Like, it's not the same as, like, truly living or truly coming alive.
Speaker B:It actually.
Speaker B:Like, in retrospect, I could sort of see that it was more like a.
Speaker B:It was more like a slow death.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:That I.
Speaker B:It was so slow that I wasn't even aware.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Like.
Speaker B:And so once I keyed in on it, though, there was no.
Speaker B:There was.
Speaker B:I had no ability to pretend anymore.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I feel like when something clicks, it just clicks.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:And you get it, and then you can't unsee it because being told that you should be grateful, it's just telling you to just settle and it's okay, and it's good enough.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Don't worry about what that feeling is.
Speaker B:Just.
Speaker A:You should be grateful.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:How can you be grateful?
Speaker A:How can you be grateful when you're, like, torn up inside about whatever it is, you know?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Well, in wanting something different doesn't mean you're not grateful.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker C:We're wanting more.
Speaker A:Well, right.
Speaker A:But that's the problem in itself, right, Is that wanting something different means that you are not fitting into the box we want you to fit in.
Speaker B:That's a problem.
Speaker A:You know?
Speaker A:And you're like, I don't want that box, you know, or that picture to color, like.
Speaker A:No, thank you.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:I can't wait to talk about some of this stuff.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:So I know Adriana just shared a little bit about what she loves and appreciates about you.
Speaker C:So let me think if I can keep it short.
Speaker A:Impossible.
Speaker C:So much.
Speaker C:Gosh.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:Am I. I'm, like, getting emotional okay, so I love that.
Speaker C:I feel like this is true for both of you.
Speaker C:But Eric, I feel like, I don't know.
Speaker C:It's very interesting how our relationship has evolved to me and I am so grateful that we got to the place where we are through our growth individually that to now we get to grow together.
Speaker C:Because I love how bold you are and, and firm in your boundaries is.
Speaker C:That is something that I struggle mightily with.
Speaker C:And you're just like, no, like, I think you're the master of.
Speaker C:Nope, you will not.
Speaker C:Like, seriously, when I hear you talk, I'm just like, oh, I need to borrow some of that sometimes.
Speaker B:Is that for myself or for other people?
Speaker B:Because sometimes I feel like my boundaries are non existent.
Speaker B:That's still a work in progress.
Speaker C:I don't know.
Speaker A:I wouldn't say they're non existent.
Speaker A:There might be a work in process, but I feel like that's for everyone.
Speaker A:But I would, I would, would definitely not say that.
Speaker A:Excuse me.
Speaker A:That they're not existent.
Speaker B:Maybe I'm holding on to an old story.
Speaker C:Maybe because what I see in you is like, yeah, we aren't doing this anymore.
Speaker C:And it's like, cool.
Speaker C:How do you just do that?
Speaker C:I want to study that and be like, I'm okay.
Speaker C:Although I feel like I'm probably a little further along than I think I am too.
Speaker A:But we never give ourselves enough credit.
Speaker C:Yeah, but that's okay.
Speaker C:We're still growing.
Speaker C:It's all good.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker C:The way your mind works, how confident you are, and it's really made me more confident.
Speaker C:Like, see you model that.
Speaker C:Like, I know my.
Speaker C:And don't try to tell me otherwise because you just look like a fool.
Speaker C:And you know, like, I love that because I felt like that, but always felt like that was wrong in a way.
Speaker C:And now when I catch myself being confident.
Speaker C:Isn't that a funny way to put that?
Speaker C:When I catch myself being confident, I don't shut it down.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker C:Which should be the old story.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:Like, who are you to think.
Speaker C:Blah, blah, blah.
Speaker C:Like, I, I don't do that anymore.
Speaker C:I'm like, do I now?
Speaker C:It's like approaching it with the curiosity.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:Like, is that true?
Speaker C:Yes, I know my.
Speaker C:And I have a right to be confident.
Speaker C:So it's awesome to see that modeled and to just be like, yes, I feel things and yes, this is that and that's who I am.
Speaker C:And that's okay.
Speaker C:Like, I just appreciate that.
Speaker A:And you see, I want, I just want to add one more thing because that's, that's What I mean about the gift that we get, like, that's the gift.
Speaker A:It's not that just people coming to your life.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:It's not just having people or accumulating people.
Speaker A:It's what they.
Speaker A:It's what they bring into your life, and it's that support, that belief in you, even when you don't see it in yourself is when they see in you what you can't even see in yourself, that helps you get stronger, be more confident, you know, be more aware.
Speaker A:Like, that.
Speaker A:That's what I mean about the gift, and that's the gift that I've received from the both of you.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:That helps me.
Speaker A:Like, I.
Speaker A:When you have people that believe in you, it just helps you.
Speaker A:Like, I can handle anything.
Speaker A:Like, I.
Speaker A:What I.
Speaker A:The things that I've had to handle since the two of you came into my life, I was able to handle those things and do those things because I had you in my life, you know, because you guys have given me that strength, and that's.
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker A:That's what's so beautiful.
Speaker C:And I feel like I don't have to explain myself to you.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker C:My Gemini friend speaks my Gemini rising language, so 100%.
Speaker C:I just can't tell you how much I appreciate that.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Find a.
Speaker B:What did we say?
Speaker B:And did we say this in our last one?
Speaker B:Find someone who speaks your language.
Speaker B:You don't have to spend a lifetime translating your soul.
Speaker B:Like, that's.
Speaker B:That's so valuable.
Speaker B:Just sort of, like, understands innately.
Speaker B:But I also think there's, like, a. I mean, part of the reason that we're doing this.
Speaker B:Like, at least my why for doing this is that, like, I know exactly how much I had to unlearn and untangle and wrestle with and reconcile and rebuild in this process.
Speaker B:Like, I know how hard I had to fight to become a much more confident, empowered version of myself, which I still don't feel confident all the time.
Speaker B:I still don't feel empowered all the time.
Speaker B:I still slip back into old patterns, but I'm way farther along, for sure, than I used to be.
Speaker B:But my why for doing this is exactly what you've both just said.
Speaker B:It's like, the more we see other women living unapologetically, the more it gives us permission to do the same.
Speaker B:Like, that's where I think this is.
Speaker B:This is so important.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:It feels.
Speaker B:It feels rebellious to say things like, yeah, I'm fucking good at that.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Because we were told to make ourselves smaller.
Speaker B:It's not rebellious.
Speaker B:That's just confidence.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And, yeah, I just want to add, like, we're humans, right.
Speaker A:We're having the human experience, and we're not meant to get to the point where we're just always confident or always empowered.
Speaker A:You know what I mean?
Speaker A:There's.
Speaker A:You're going to have those moments.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:But it's why you have the support, is to help you get back.
Speaker A:Get back to that.
Speaker B:I feel like we need a.
Speaker B:Maybe this is also a whole nother episode, but that.
Speaker A:Oh, totally.
Speaker B:The moment in the journey where you realize, like, there is no end point.
Speaker B:And then, like, the slightly empowering but also slightly defeating realization of that, like, just being like that sucks that it's.
Speaker B:That now I've signed up for, like, a lifetime of this.
Speaker B:But then also, like, that's fucking awesome because think of how good it's gonna get.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Like on the other side of it.
Speaker B:But, man, sometimes I'm just tired.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker C:Can I take a day off?
Speaker A:Right, exactly.
Speaker C:The journey, the growth.
Speaker A:That's the thing about being nowhere.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Because you can't go back.
Speaker A:You can't go back.
Speaker A:And sometimes it's like this.
Speaker A:For one day, I want to be, like, totally just.
Speaker A:I want to be oblivious to anything.
Speaker B:Fully ignorant again.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Pretty please.
Speaker B:I'd love to not know all the things.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And, you know, I mean, I feel like we're just going to repeat this over and over and over again in our podcast.
Speaker A:Because, I mean, for me, that's.
Speaker A:This is what I'm so grateful for, is just having the two of you.
Speaker A:Because again, I just.
Speaker A:It.
Speaker A:I don't know how I would have done it the last several years without the two of you.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And I'm.
Speaker A:I'm gonna.
Speaker A:I'm.
Speaker A:I'm gonna say that a lot because it's just so true.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:It's gonna happen in every conversation.
Speaker C:Anything else?
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:I'm very sweaty, though, so.
Speaker A:Because you've.
Speaker A:Spotlight's been on you.
Speaker B:Oh, I'm, like, dying.
Speaker A:Great.
Speaker A:It's awesome.
Speaker A:This is amazing.
Speaker A:So happy to talk about these things and to.
Speaker A:To hear your story and.
Speaker A:And obviously there's more, even more to our story that, you know, we haven't told the details, but they'll come out.
Speaker A:They will be out in other episodes.
Speaker C:Yep.
Speaker A:So, yeah.
Speaker A:Stay tuned for more.
